RESULTS: 2012 Ruby 7

[Roo-loves-Elsie]

If You wants ISML to become better, more valueable and respected,
please make the vote counting system fair, equitable and public.

fair & equitable: What's not fair and equitable about the current vote counting system? One vote per person (IP) with multiple votes removed—I don't see how that can be improved.
public: I'm going to assume here that you mean show the vote counts as each ballot is submitted. If you think about it, this idea brings a tons of problems. But before that, let me ask you this: Do you think there's a reason why the results to political elections aren't "public" until the time period of voting ends? Showing the votes as they are submitted can result in:
1) Voters being swayed
2) Site needs to constantly refresh the vote totals, possibly making it slower
3) Strategical/Anti voting will increase now that people know roughly how much a character needs to win or lose
There are probably more, but the bottom line is, making vote counting public is something that should never happen.

4) I believe part of ensuring that there aren't any fake votes is keeping the vote checking method a secret. IP is part of it but I'm sure there's more.

5) and i haven't seen any voting activity irl which updates their voting counts during the voting period - coz this is not a poll - all voting activity that i know always announce the vote result sometimes after the voting session has just ended

btw partial result announcement few hour after the matches is fun i think - especially before the 'flip' hour reached, because it will raise the surprise material

[RockmanXt]

5) and i haven't seen any voting activity irl which updates their voting counts during the voting period - coz this is not a poll - all voting activity that i know always announce the vote result sometimes after the voting session has just ended

AST (J-Saimoe) do it like that.
Because voting are done on 2ch, which is text-base webboard. Result can be count directly, or use some specific website/program to collect the result. You know the number of vote all the time. (But still raw vote, in the end they will eliminate same-IP vote count as fake vote)

But as you may know (or not), in AST, because you know the result all the time, there're A LOT of strategy to exploit it. Fake vote, head start, last minute vote, etc.

For example, in AST match "A vs B", character "A" have been added lots of fake vote in the start, to make people think that "A" are more vote than "B" at all the time, and consider to vote for "B" to make the match more competitive, and some people stop voting for "A" because they think it's a sure win. But in the end the fake was eliminated, real vote for A are less than B all the time. B win the Match.
Do you think that fair for people who vote for B just for competitive match? or for people that stop voting for A because sure win?

That's I call strategic. I don't want ISML to be like that. Voting arena should be directly, straightforward. The one that win should be from selective of all voter, not win by strategic voting.

[Zefyris]

The only problem I have with the current system is that... How am I supposed to know if my vote was taken in account or not in the end result?
Because with the amount of votes which are removed every time, surely there are some which actually were falsely detected as multi voting by the system. It can't be helped considering how huge the number of votes has become. And how many ways there is to try tricking the system while attempting to vote multiple times.

So... How do I know that my votes weren't rejected since last year after being wrongly detected for one reason or another as being part of a multi vote (note : I don't multi vote. Never did it and will never do it, as I hate cheating quite passionately)? After being detected one time or a set amount of times (wrongly or not), does the website forbid that ip to vote by saying that that ip has been banned? Or will it say "thank you, your vote has been accepted" like it always does? If that's the case, how do I know that my last 50 votes weren't rejected? Or maybe half of it? And the ones when one of my favorite char lost by one or two votes? Truthfully, that's something which has been bothering me for a while after hearing how much votes were rejected in the last tiara match... I believe that the staff is doing his best to bring us fair results. But the problem is that no matter how much they try, because of the amount of cheaters, I don't think that it's possible that only votes from cheaters were and are deleted. It's not like the staff knows personally every voters and can therefore know who to trust and who not to. Maybe I'm stupidly voting each time while my votes are actually deleted. Once you start to doubt about this, it's quite difficult to not think about it again and again while looking at the results each time, and it's somehow spoiling part of my fun that I'm having voting in ISML. I don't think that that can be helped, though...

And the core of the problem is that there are so many people who cannot behave rightly and will cheat when they can rather than playing fairly and accepting the possibility of a loss for their beloved character. So annoying to have my fun spoiled by that kind of behavior...Though, it's not half as bad has being part of the staff and seeing all those people trying to spoil your efforts with that kind of selfish behavior, I suppose...

[Jeffrey-sama]

The only problem I have with the current system is that... How am I supposed to know if my vote was taken in account or not in the end result?
Because with the amount of votes which are removed every time, surely there are some which actually were falsely detected as multi voting by the system. It can't be helped considering how huge the number of votes has become. And how many ways there is to try tricking the system while attempting to vote multiple times.

So... How do I know that my votes weren't rejected since last year after being wrongly detected for one reason or another as being part of a multi vote (note : I don't multi vote. Never did it and will never do it, as I hate cheating quite passionately)? After being detected one time or a set amount of times (wrongly or not), does the website forbid that ip to vote by saying that that ip has been banned? Or will it say "thank you, your vote has been accepted" like it always does? If that's the case, how do I know that my last 50 votes weren't rejected? Or maybe half of it? And the ones when one of my favorite char lost by one or two votes? Truthfully, that's something which has been bothering me for a while after hearing how much votes were rejected in the last tiara match... I believe that the staff is doing his best to bring us fair results. But the problem is that no matter how much they try, because of the amount of cheaters, I don't think that it's possible that only votes from cheaters were and are deleted. It's not like the staff knows personally every voters and can therefore know who to trust and who not to. Maybe I'm stupidly voting each time while my votes are actually deleted. Once you start to doubt about this, it's quite difficult to not think about it again and again while looking at the results each time, and it's somehow spoiling part of my fun that I'm having voting in ISML. I don't think that that can be helped, though...

And the core of the problem is that there are so many people who cannot behave rightly and will cheat when they can rather than playing fairly and accepting the possibility of a loss for their beloved character. So annoying to have my fun spoiled by that kind of behavior...Though, it's not half as bad has being part of the staff and seeing all those people trying to spoil your efforts with that kind of selfish behavior, I suppose...

The reality is... you don't know. The best way to go upon this is to keep an optimistic attitude and just consider that you've done your part and voted. Like you said, it's likely (@anyone who handles the votes: Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe there's a secret method in filtering out fake votes.) that there are some legit votes that get discarded. But given that there is absolutely nothing that can be done about this, why bother thinking about it? I mean, if it was something that could be fixed, I wouldn't blame you for having this thought at the back of your mind, but this is not the case. If I were to go further, imagine what would happen if everyone thought this way. Eventually, there'd be no voters, marking the end for ISML. In conclusion, just continue to vote. Whether your vote is accepted or not isn't in your control.

[xcrossfacekillahx]

For example, in AST match "A vs B", character "A" have been added lots of fake vote in the start, to make people think that "A" are more vote than "B" at all the time, and consider to vote for "B" to make the match more competitive, and some people stop voting for "A" because they think it's a sure win. But in the end the fake was eliminated, real vote for A are less than B all the time. B win the Match.
Do you think that fair for people who vote for B just for competitive match? or for people that stop voting for A because sure win?

That's I call strategic. I don't want ISML to be like that. Voting arena should be directly, straightforward. The one that win should be from selective of all voter, not win by strategic voting.

Even so, there is still strategy in ISML but is not easily seen because the fake votes are filtered out. We have reasons to vote the ones we don't want sometimes. One of them is because it benefits both the winner and the loser points wise. Another one could be, it helps in your favorite gain the upper hand. Sometimes, you simply dislike the character and that she is not moe enough. Stuff like that, it's so small and simple that people often disregard or sometimes overlook.

This is why I agree with this year's scoring system. Overkilling doesn't mean anything since it is the same as a 1 point win. But that is another story.

[Roo-loves-Elsie]

The only problem I have with the current system is that... How am I supposed to know if my vote was taken in account or not in the end result?
Because with the amount of votes which are removed every time, surely there are some which actually were falsely detected as multi voting by the system. It can't be helped considering how huge the number of votes has become. And how many ways there is to try tricking the system while attempting to vote multiple times.

So... How do I know that my votes weren't rejected since last year after being wrongly detected for one reason or another as being part of a multi vote (note : I don't multi vote. Never did it and will never do it, as I hate cheating quite passionately)? After being detected one time or a set amount of times (wrongly or not), does the website forbid that ip to vote by saying that that ip has been banned? Or will it say "thank you, your vote has been accepted" like it always does? If that's the case, how do I know that my last 50 votes weren't rejected? Or maybe half of it? And the ones when one of my favorite char lost by one or two votes? Truthfully, that's something which has been bothering me for a while after hearing how much votes were rejected in the last tiara match... I believe that the staff is doing his best to bring us fair results. But the problem is that no matter how much they try, because of the amount of cheaters, I don't think that it's possible that only votes from cheaters were and are deleted. It's not like the staff knows personally every voters and can therefore know who to trust and who not to. Maybe I'm stupidly voting each time while my votes are actually deleted. Once you start to doubt about this, it's quite difficult to not think about it again and again while looking at the results each time, and it's somehow spoiling part of my fun that I'm having voting in ISML. I don't think that that can be helped, though...

And the core of the problem is that there are so many people who cannot behave rightly and will cheat when they can rather than playing fairly and accepting the possibility of a loss for their beloved character. So annoying to have my fun spoiled by that kind of behavior...Though, it's not half as bad has being part of the staff and seeing all those people trying to spoil your efforts with that kind of selfish behavior, I suppose...

this is also the problem, for narrow wins especially (winner get less than 1% wins)
since we dont know how system works, we can never be sure that our voted were counted or not, even the page said "your vote has been accepted" its not a guarantee that the system will count it... (well its just my assumption tho, since i dont know yet how the fake vote filter system in ISML works, or how perfect it is...)

For example, in AST match "A vs B", character "A" have been added lots of fake vote in the start, to make people think that "A" are more vote than "B" at all the time, and consider to vote for "B" to make the match more competitive, and some people stop voting for "A" because they think it's a sure win. But in the end the fake was eliminated, real vote for A are less than B all the time. B win the Match.
Do you think that fair for people who vote for B just for competitive match? or for people that stop voting for A because sure win?

That's I call strategic. I don't want ISML to be like that. Voting arena should be directly, straightforward. The one that win should be from selective of all voter, not win by strategic voting.

Even so, there is still strategy in ISML but is not easily seen because the fake votes are filtered out. We have reasons to vote the ones we don't want sometimes. One of them is because it benefits both the winner and the loser points wise. Another one could be, it helps in your favorite gain the upper hand. Sometimes, you simply dislike the character and that she is not moe enough. Stuff like that, it's so small and simple that people often disregard or sometimes overlook.

This is why I agree with this year's scoring system. Overkilling doesn't mean anything since it is the same as a 1 point win. But that is another story.

strategic, yes and no, but i prefer to call it political vote... a politic to make certain girl success or failed... and that is real world, you can not force fair and square condition, coz there is always a X factor

[Jeffrey-sama]

The only problem I have with the current system is that... How am I supposed to know if my vote was taken in account or not in the end result?
Because with the amount of votes which are removed every time, surely there are some which actually were falsely detected as multi voting by the system. It can't be helped considering how huge the number of votes has become. And how many ways there is to try tricking the system while attempting to vote multiple times.

So... How do I know that my votes weren't rejected since last year after being wrongly detected for one reason or another as being part of a multi vote (note : I don't multi vote. Never did it and will never do it, as I hate cheating quite passionately)? After being detected one time or a set amount of times (wrongly or not), does the website forbid that ip to vote by saying that that ip has been banned? Or will it say "thank you, your vote has been accepted" like it always does? If that's the case, how do I know that my last 50 votes weren't rejected? Or maybe half of it? And the ones when one of my favorite char lost by one or two votes? Truthfully, that's something which has been bothering me for a while after hearing how much votes were rejected in the last tiara match... I believe that the staff is doing his best to bring us fair results. But the problem is that no matter how much they try, because of the amount of cheaters, I don't think that it's possible that only votes from cheaters were and are deleted. It's not like the staff knows personally every voters and can therefore know who to trust and who not to. Maybe I'm stupidly voting each time while my votes are actually deleted. Once you start to doubt about this, it's quite difficult to not think about it again and again while looking at the results each time, and it's somehow spoiling part of my fun that I'm having voting in ISML. I don't think that that can be helped, though...

And the core of the problem is that there are so many people who cannot behave rightly and will cheat when they can rather than playing fairly and accepting the possibility of a loss for their beloved character. So annoying to have my fun spoiled by that kind of behavior...Though, it's not half as bad has being part of the staff and seeing all those people trying to spoil your efforts with that kind of selfish behavior, I suppose...

this is also the problem, for narrow wins especially (winner get less than 1% wins)
since we dont know how system works, we can never be sure that our voted were counted or not, even the page said "your vote has been accepted" its not a guarantee that the system will count it... (well its just my assumption tho, since i dont know yet how the fake vote filter system in ISML works, or how perfect it is...)

It can't be "perfect". I'm pretty sure vote checking is done manually to some degree (automation can only do so much) so human mistakes are bound to occur. Though obviously the goal is to minimize the percentage of error in the filtering.

[Roo-loves-Elsie]

The only problem I have with the current system is that... How am I supposed to know if my vote was taken in account or not in the end result?
Because with the amount of votes which are removed every time, surely there are some which actually were falsely detected as multi voting by the system. It can't be helped considering how huge the number of votes has become. And how many ways there is to try tricking the system while attempting to vote multiple times.

So... How do I know that my votes weren't rejected since last year after being wrongly detected for one reason or another as being part of a multi vote (note : I don't multi vote. Never did it and will never do it, as I hate cheating quite passionately)? After being detected one time or a set amount of times (wrongly or not), does the website forbid that ip to vote by saying that that ip has been banned? Or will it say "thank you, your vote has been accepted" like it always does? If that's the case, how do I know that my last 50 votes weren't rejected? Or maybe half of it? And the ones when one of my favorite char lost by one or two votes? Truthfully, that's something which has been bothering me for a while after hearing how much votes were rejected in the last tiara match... I believe that the staff is doing his best to bring us fair results. But the problem is that no matter how much they try, because of the amount of cheaters, I don't think that it's possible that only votes from cheaters were and are deleted. It's not like the staff knows personally every voters and can therefore know who to trust and who not to. Maybe I'm stupidly voting each time while my votes are actually deleted. Once you start to doubt about this, it's quite difficult to not think about it again and again while looking at the results each time, and it's somehow spoiling part of my fun that I'm having voting in ISML. I don't think that that can be helped, though...

And the core of the problem is that there are so many people who cannot behave rightly and will cheat when they can rather than playing fairly and accepting the possibility of a loss for their beloved character. So annoying to have my fun spoiled by that kind of behavior...Though, it's not half as bad has being part of the staff and seeing all those people trying to spoil your efforts with that kind of selfish behavior, I suppose...

this is also the problem, for narrow wins especially (winner get less than 1% wins)
since we dont know how system works, we can never be sure that our voted were counted or not, even the page said "your vote has been accepted" its not a guarantee that the system will count it... (well its just my assumption tho, since i dont know yet how the fake vote filter system in ISML works, or how perfect it is...)

It can't be "perfect". I'm pretty sure vote checking is done manually to some degree (automation can only do so much) so human mistakes are bound to occur. Though obviously the goal is to minimize the percentage of error in the filtering.

this is also the thing that make the match to be more interesting... some "controversy" must be added too... lol
you can not hope for a perfect system after all...